Thursday, September 27, 2007

The Real MVPs

Update: For all the WPA haters, I did the same thing with VORP here.

There are many problems with the MVP award. The main one, of course, is these guys. The second constant issue is the term "valuable". Everyone has their own definition of the word, which makes things quite difficult. Can it come from a guy on a losing team? What about if there are multiple candidates on the same team- does that make the individually less "valuable"?

The way I see it, WPA was created for this debate. The Win Probability Added definition from Wikipedia: "[WPA] is the difference between the Win Probability when the player came to bat and the Win Probability when the play ended."

Well that seems like a pretty good way of analyzing the situation, doesn't it? A measure of how much a player contributed to his team's chance of winning the game- that's just what we're looking for. So let's just look at the WPA leaders, and be done with it, right?

Of course, it is not nearly that simple. As far as I can tell, there are three main things that WPA does not account for:

-Positional value. Having a shortstop who hits .335/.420/.530 is a whole lot more valuable than having a first baseman with the same line. VORP accounts for this, but the WPA numbers listed on FanGraphs do not. To deal with this issue, I developed a system that takes position into account. The positional adjustments, per 600 PAs, are on the right.

-Park factors. Another thing that is considered by VORP, but not in traditional WPA. This is also pretty simple to take into account as I have looked at previously. Here are the per 600 PA adjustments for parks with the most dramatic effects:


-Fielding. Oh boy. Any system trying to account for fielding is going to be imperfect, but it would be unreasonable not to include something. I've used the Hardball Times' fielding stats that were released at the end of August, as well the UZR numbers that MGL released around the All-Star break. Since this is obviously far from complete, I also included UZRs from '05 and '06.

So now we have accounted for the three main inadequacies in WPA- positional value, park factors, and fielding. The only other adjustment needed is a small one, accounting for the leverage of the average situation the batter has come up with, in order to control for hitters who have come to bat in an inordinate amount of "high leverage" situations. All of these adjustments can be seen in the various columns below.

Finally, we can apply all of this to this year's MVP races. Let's start with the straightforward one:

AL MVP:

Rodriguez starts off with a huge lead in raw WPA, and does nothing to relinquish it. I think we tend to forget that Yankee Stadium is actually a pretty significant pitchers park, which helps him here. Also relevant is the fact that although he it taking a slight hit for his position, it's not nearly as much as RFs Ordonez and Guerrero.

I think the top four are pretty much what you would expect (although it's interesting that almost half of Ichiro's value comes from his fielding). Polanco, though, is probably not someone that would be expected to show up on this list. He really does belong here though. All of the numbers agree that he is an excellent fielder. More importantly, he's hitting .340/.389/.459 as a second baseman, which is quite impressive. If you put Polanco in pinstripes and throw a "2" on his back, he's in every MVP discussion. Of course, that's now things work, so he'll have to settle for being on this list.

Now, for the interesting one:

NL MVP


I understand that the names not on this list may be more interesting to talk about than those which are, but I'll get to that in a second. Interesting to note that all four of the top NL guys get huge boosts from their fielding. This is because the NL is so bunched up at the top- there are 9 guys within 1.2 of the WPA leader. When that happens, getting an extra 14-18 runs from your fielding vaults you right to the top.

Wright and Utley are neck and neck, and the winner will be decided over the final weekend. Wright suffers a little from the positional adjustment, but gets a boost because Shea is so tough to hit in, and obviously gets a huge boost from his fielding (THT's stats have him at +28 runs).

It's too bad that Utley missed so much time, because he's really had a remarkable season, both with the bat and the glove. The only blemish on his line is the park adjustment, and that's obviously not his doing. Because of the time he missed I didn't expect him to do so well in this analysis, but that just shows how good he's been when healthy.

I talked about Tulowitzki yesterday, so I won't get into that again. Interesting thing about Pujols is that he gets killed in the positional adjustment, but he makes it up (and then some) with his fielding prowess.

OK, now for the three guys who didn't make the top five, but have been included in most discussions:


Prince Fielder leads the NL in WPA. He then loses almost 22 runs because of the position he plays, and how poorly he plays it. That's the thing about this system- you can't just be a good hitter and have that be your entire candidacy. Fielder's only value is in his bat, and you would have to have an overwhelming year at the plate to be the MVP while playing first base poorly. While obviously impressive, Fielder's 2007 offensive campaign doesn't fall under the category of "overwhelming".

Holliday is somewhat similar, but his weakness is the park he plays, rather than his fielding skill (or lack thereof). He's been good (and those 131 RBIs are going to be real tough for the voters to pass up if the Rockies somehow sneak into the playoffs), but he really doesn't belong in the MVP discussion.

Rollins is definitely the most interesting omission, as he would have to be considered the co-favorite at this point (along with Wright) to win the award.

Is this really even worth discussing? As far as I can tell, the main thing in Rollins' candidacy is this stupid 20-20-20-20 thing. Who cares? Can we talk about how the guy walks less than half as often as Wright, while having a lower slugging percentage and getting destroyed in BA, rather than his possible inclusion in some gimmicky club?

The two factors that this table doesn't show, but I've included before, are fielding, and position. Rollins obviously has the positional value thing on Wright- with this huge number of PAs, there's about an 11 run difference between SS and 3B. But none of Rollins' numbers indicate he's anything other than an average fielder, while all of Wright's 2007 numbers are stellar. I just don't see how Rollins even comes close to making up the huge gaps in the hitting categories.

So there you have it- A-Rod takes it in the AL, with Utley and Wright battling it out down to the wire in the Senior Circuit. The official MVP award is quite different than this- it focuses mainly on batting average and RBIs, while ignoring useful batting statistics and fielding. It also won't be announced until mid-November, when everybody will be preoccupied complaining about the BCS anyway. Much more timely, fan friendly, and intelligent will be the Internet Baseball Awards, which you can vote on over at BP after the World Series ends. To give you an idea of how things work over there, Morneau finished 6th in the AL voting last year, which is probably all the proof you need that it's a superior system to the actual award.

Photos: Wright, A-Rod, Utley, Rollins.

Update
: After reading the BBTF Discussion of this post, I wanted to mention a couple things I should have included.

I should have mentioned that UZR is screwed up for Coors, as MGL mentions in the comments of the post in which he released them. UZR had Tulowitzki at +14 runs through the ASB, which is probably too high. He is probably slightly overrated by this system in terms of fielding. It should be noted that a lot of Tulowitzki's value has come from his brilliant performance in"clutch" situations- FanGraphs has his BRAA as 13.86, but his raw WPA is 2.85- his performance in "Clutch" situations has caused his WPA to be 1.43 higher than would be expected.

It's also a fair point that I should have included runs in the comparison between Rollins and Wright, since there was a column for RBIs. This was an honest mistake (rather than trying to make Wright look better)- I was taking the numbers from B-R, and just started with doubles and moved down the line. I didn't notice that runs wasn't there, as it's not really something I take into consideration when comparing players (neither is RBI).

Wright has scored 110 runs, Rollins has scored 135. This is somewhat amazing, as Wrights OBP is 68 points higher. Part of the reason for the large discrepancy is Rollins has had an amazing 761 PAs, compared to Wright's 693. But a bigger factor is the guys who hit behind Rollins. Utley, Burrell, Howard, and Rowand have combined for an amazing 267 extra base hits. Which is exactly the problem with runs- if you put Wright at the top of the Phillies' lineup, he probably would have scored just as many.

Update 2: I didn't incorporate BP's fielding stats into my fielding numbers, which was silly. If I do, Russ Martin jumps to fourth in the NL. The AL top five stays in the same order.


35 comments:

  1. This is proof that numbers don't mean everything. Rollins is clearly more worthy this season of MVP than Utley.

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  2. This is freaking absurd. Ryan Howard drives in 130 Runs and hits 44 Home Runs--despite missing a significant chunk of time on the DL--and gets no consideration at all, despite being a major catalyst in the Phils run at the pennant? oh, wait, he's a 1b, and the math tables say 1b aren't as valuable. Come on. Stats are obviously an important tool to analyze baseball but not the only part of the picture. You're getting way too carried away with trying to find a systematic formula to determine value. Real baseball is not fantasy baseball.

    CJB East Windup Chronicle

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  3. Ryan Howard is 10th in the NL in OPS, and not even in the top 10 in runs created. If I was just doing best hitter in the NL, he wouldn't be in the top five.

    Add to that that the he is a below average first baseman in a hitters park...seeing as your reasoning is RBIs and HRs (he's 5th in the league in SLG%, BTW), I think I'll stick to my system.

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  4. Could you explain why your system groups first basemen and designated hitters in the same defensive group? Obviously, range and throwing are not as important for first basemen as for other positions, but how can a player that is active on more plays than any position other than pitcher and catcher be lumped in with a player who never touches the ball at all on defense?

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  5. Great stuff, man. I think Wright gets the MVP granted the Mets get in...which ain't such a sure thing anymore. It would be interesting to see what happens if the Phils win the East; seems like Rollins is the guy who would win there in place of the more-deserving Utley. Also, it doesn't seem like Pujol's "down" year is so bad; nice to see some work on that. Well done.

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  6. Anon- that bothers me, too. When I actually looked at the averages over the last three years, first baseman got me that -1.50 number, and DHs were actually something like -1.20. That seemed weird, so I just lumped them together.

    There should be a bigger penalty for DHs (I wonder what BP uses), and thats something I should fix- I didn't bother to do it for this, since it doesn't really effect the MVP discussion.

    JDB- thanks. Pujols' fielding is amazing- +31 from THT, +7 (in half a season) according to UZR, and +19 according to BP.

    I wonder how much the voters will penalize Wright for the Mets' collapse, even if they do get in. And I don't think Utley really has any chance of actually winning.

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  7. You really didn't address the annual argument about whether we're voting for "Most Valuable" or "Best Player". Example: Jorge Posada has better #s than Guerrerro and plays a much tougher position. Apparently, he didn't come up in as many high leverage spots though...

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  8. Sorry if I didn't make that clear, but what I was going for is "Most Valuable", thus the use of WPA. How much you furthered your team's chance of winning.

    The Posada/Vlad comparison is a good one, but it's not about how many high leverage spots you come in (that's adjusted for, and Posada does get a slight boost, as the average leverage of his PAs has been 0.94). Rather, it's what you do in those- Vlad has been great (his WPA is almost 2.5 runs higher than we would expect from his OBP and SLG), while Posada has been slightly below average.

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  9. 1. How can you say Rollins' defense is average? You really have to watch him, and then you would realize that his defense is gold glove worthy.

    2. Rollins bats leadoff, while David Wright I believe bats mostly 3rd, so it would make more sense for Wright to have an overwelming lead in RBI's, but that's not the case, it's only 14, (with the stats here.) I wonder when a player batting leadoff came even CLOSE to 100 RBI's?!

    3. Isn't MVP mean most valuable to his team? With injuries to Howard, Utley, and almost all the pitching staff, it was Rollins who has started every game.

    4. How can you say who cares about the 20-20-20-20 club?! Only 2 people in the HISTORY of this great game have ever done it? Anytime you do something with less then 5 people in that club, it's pretty amazing.

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  10. 1. You're right, I don't watch Rollins every night. But every defensive number on him is between 5 and -5 runs; he's about average. People watched Jeter for years and thought (and continue to think) he's GG worthy...

    2. According to BP, Wright has come up with 416 runners on base, and driven in 18% of them. Rollins has come up with 381 runners on base and driven in 16% of them. No reason to rely on guesses when there is proof.

    3. Utley has played 129 games, Rollins 159. Utley has a .411 OBP; Rollins .344. I would rather have a .411 OBP for five months of the season than a .344 OBP for six. That's an arguable point.

    4. It's a cool little stat. But what does it tell you about how valuable he has been? Very little.

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  11. How can anyone seriously make a claim for Ryan Howard as MVP? He just broke the single season record for most striekouts in one year, and, as you said CJB, he spent a significant chunk of time on the DL. That was the only reason Albert Pujols didn't win last year, his DL stint, and thusly Howard hardly deserves even a passing glance this year.

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  12. Great post, you gave me a new way to look at some of these guys (and the races they're in). You should forward it to Joe Morgan, I'm sure he'd find it really interesting.

    And is that the best picture you could find of David Wright? ;)

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  13. You don't like that picture? I know its not great quality (I'm assuming it's just a still shot taken from video of that ridiculous play), but I thought it was kinda cool.

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  14. The Ryan Rules9/28/07, 1:49 PM

    Isaac--are you high? That guys a CATALYST man! I've watched like a hundred Phils games this year, and that guy is a CATALYST! I don't need to watch any other players or see any numbers, I got my EYES, you know? Can't nobody ever be more valuable than NUMBER SIX! Vegas Watch'll spend hours upon hours, coming up with real facts, evidence, quantifiable mumbo-jumbo, but I'll disregard all that nerdy stuff for a little CATACLISM! What's that? Howard's season is almost identical to Adam Dunn's? BAH! Dunn's a strikeout choker! Howard's a CATALYST!

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  15. This is not to say Howard is an MVP but strike outs mean nothing, especially when you slug like Ryan Howard. I think any team would take that season and the strikeouts, not to mention he's slow so some of those strike outs mean he's not doing something worse like a double play.

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  16. TRR- thanks for that. Enjoyed it thoroughly.

    Tim- completely agree. There are many reasons I didn't have Howard as a leading candidate, but strikeouts was not one of them.

    If anyone is interested, there's also an interesting discussion of this post going on in the comments section of Rob Neyer's blog on ESPN.com. Sadly, it is Insider only, but I'm going to post what Neyer said later today.

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  17. Also very interesting to note that Tulowitzki is listed as a Top 5 MVP candidate yet everyone seems to assume that he will finish second to Ryan Braun in ROY. Braun's brick hands must have been a big subtraction.

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  18. Braun's brick hands (and Tulo's great glove) did make a big difference- I actually wrote an article comparing the two (linked below).

    Until about half an hour ago, I thought Braun was a lock for RoY myself(as the linked article reflects). But Neyer just said that he thought Tulo was the favorite now, and if you look at the BA, HR, and RBIs, I think he has a good point. Braun only leads by one in RBIs, and you'd have to think the Rockies' late charge will help Tulo, especially if the Brewers miss the playoffs.

    http://vegaswatch.blogspot.com/2007/09/nl-rookie-of-yearrace.html

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  19. I know this isn't a ROY page and I apologize for the digression, but Braun seems very similar to another 3B from the U, Pat Burrell. I think we will see Braun in the outfield shortly. As for the MVP race, I think Rollins OPS+ out of the leadoff spot is really impressive. If he had a little more plate discipline, he would probably have an OPS above 1.000 out of the leadoff spot. I was also surprised to see him in the middle of the pack as a fielder and see Utley regarded as a better fielder. For years the knock on Utley has been that he was only OK in the field. Maybe it has to do with mediocre 3B next to Rollins? I have always thought fielding is the toughest thing to quantify.

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  20. I didn't mean to cut off the RoY discussion here, just didn't want to repeat all the opinions on Braun and Tulo that I wrote about the other day. In his chat today Keith Law mentioned Braun moving to left next year (standard), but also mentioned CF as a possibility, which I thought was interesting (I haven't watched Braun play nearly enough to know how he'd be in CF).

    My main problem with Rollins' candidacy is exactly that, his low OBP. Wright has walked in 13.6% of his plate appearances, as opposed to just 6.4% for Rollins. If those numbers were even close to equal (making the OBPs more comparable), I would be more sympathetic to Rollins' case.

    As for fielding, all the numbers have Utley as a pretty fantastic fielder. Rollins is anywhere between -5 runs and +7 runs. Very true, fielding is the toughest part of all this.

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  21. Is arm strength quantified in fielding stats? Both Rollins and Utley have strong accurate arms. One of the main reason I have always thought Jeter was overrated as a fielder was that he didn't have a great arm. Not to mention that he lives off the highlight reel fad-away jump throw from the backhand grab from deep short.

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  22. Here is what UZR does not consider:
    "'arms' for the OF, turning the DP for the IF, or receiving throws for the 1B (or any other IF)." Everything else is taken into account.

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  23. Interesting analysis. However, it is fundamentally unsound to include park effects in MVP considerations. For an award, players should be evaluated based on their actual performance rather than what they might have accomplished on a level playing field.

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  24. Great piece.

    A couple of things- you seemed surprised that 1Bs hit better than DHs. It's a bit like in high school: pitchers are often the best hitters, because they're the best athletes; but that doesn't mean pitching is the easiest position on the field. This is a tough one to adjust for.

    I wouldn't make any adjustment for leverage. If a guy is "lucky" enough to have a lot of high-leverage PAs, AND he's above average in those situations, then that's valuable.

    BTW, while Rollins is a triple away from 20-20-20-20, Curtis Granderson is up to 23-23-23-23, the first such player ever. No, I don't think that makes him an MVP type.

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  25. Few problems....

    First of all Jimmy is going for 40-30-20-20, very impressive.

    Ever consider that he has had 700 At-bats and managed to .300, that's pretty damn impressive.

    Another thing, you include runs and not RBI, thus skewing the argument in your favor, not a good look for you.

    Who is including Tulo in any MVP discussion? Uhh, no one? He just solidified his case as ROY this week.

    Then about defense, do you watch games or just read about them? I mean seriously guy, if you would have watched a Phillies game this year, yes just one, you would have seen that he displays Gold Glove caliber defense on a daily basis. That's the problem with a lot of these adjustments and sabermetric systems, they don't account for visual evidence... at all. Like it's clear that Jimmy is a superb defensive player. I just read an article about this discussing Matt Holliday, these systems don't always do justice to what everyone is seeing. They help and are more accurate than anything that exists, but that doesn't mean they should replace what we see with our eyes on a daily basis.

    MVP
    1. Holliday
    1A. Rollins
    2. Fielder
    3. Wright

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  26. I addressed the runs/RBI issue in the first update.

    "They help and are more accurate than anything that exists..."

    This is why I use them. They are the best thing currently available. Nobody said they were perfect. I would actually like to incorporate data from Tom Tango's fielding survey into this, which is just based on people watching the games. That has not been released, however.

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  27. WPA is a confused stat promoted by confused people who are more interested in elegant formulas than in logic. (No, that isn't a get-your-head-out-of-the-spreadsheet statement; it's a this-formula-doesn't-measure-the-right-things statement

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  28. Rob Neyer, two days ago:

    "I think it's perfectly appropriate to consider situational stats in MVP analysis, and so Tulo's performance in extra inning games should count in his favor."

    Rob Neyer = Confused

    By the way, I was going to do a similar thing substituting VORP for WPA in the next couple days, but I don't believe the results will be much different (with the exception of Tulo dropping).

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  29. I understand that you are a BP homer, but 100% of the posters at baseball think factory must be confused as well as 75% of the people at the Sabr meeting last month must be confused too, right? There was actual discussion to do away with this statistic. It was widley agreed that it should never be used exclusively. And baseball prospectus' defensive statistics are basically useless, look around and you'll find out that these things are horrible, their VORP stats and other things are amazing, but defensively they are way behind.

    Oh and did you just see Jimmy slide headfirst into third to get his 20th triple? Folurth man ever to do what he did, pretty amazing. Where would the Phillies be without this man? you have to look at it like that, this isn't the best player in the league it's the most valuable, and no team's are more reliant on a player than the Phils are with Jimmy and the Rockies are with MH. That's what the MVP is about, it's not a stat race.

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  30. Rob Neyer, two days ago:

    "I think it's perfectly appropriate to consider situational stats in MVP analysis, and so Tulo's performance in extra inning games should count in his favor."

    Rob Neyer = Confused


    no man, your confused, it's alright to consider it, but not use them exclusively. And as far as Tulo is concerned, he's not even the most valuable player on HIS OWN TEAM? haven't you realized this yet? if not, you aren't paying good enough attention. how can a guy be the mvp of the league when he isn't the center cog on his OWN TEAM?

    Secondly, I know Rob Neyer personally, I know exactly what he was saying with this remark, believe me, I know his feelings on WPA. Let alone every other forumlaic equation. You offer good information, but you are misguided, and anyone in this business knows that you cant skew things in your favor otherwise you are going to lose credibility. You've been campaining for Tulo for weeks, and it's obvious you have an agenda.

    on a side note, your going to alienate readers with the way that you attack their opinions with snide remarks, it's ok to argue your point, but to attack the people that are reading and offering advice in how to better yourself is not a good look, it turns people off and makes them not want to read you.

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  31. I don't meant to be snide. I agree with almost everything you are saying. I understand that the BP fielding stats aren't very good- I didn't use them, instead going with the THT stats and UZR. I also understand that WPA is flawed- I just thought this would be an interesting way to look at things.

    Honestly, it would be beneficial to me for Braun to win the RoY. I am an Indians fan, and have no loyalty to Tulo at all.

    To be fair, it does seem like you have an agenda with Rollins also.

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  32. We're both just passionate baseball people lol, i actually think Holliday should win the MVP

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  33. Yeah, if he does well today and in the potential playoff tomorrow, I might just throw all my numbers out the window and start hyping him up.

    How do you know Neyer? Do you have a website or something? I am very new to all of this...

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  34. the 20-20-20-20 accomplishment is something to be proud of only in that it is rare, but it is definitely of no importance in the mvp race. the only reason it's been accomplished so seldom is that triples are so rare. it's in my opinion that a home run is better than a triple, so if you're wondering how many times a guy has had 20 doubles - 40 home runs - 20 stolen bases (simply replacing home runs with triples), it has occurred 25 times. another thing that should be noted in the case against jimmy rollins winning the mvp is that wpa is based on the average outcomes given each situation. jimmy rollins isn't in an average situation given that the hitters behind him are utley, burrell, howard, and rowand (and victorino earlier in the season), so for a guy in jimmy's situation, he would be more valuable to his team with a higher obp and lower slg because you can expect the hitters behind him to drive him in, so wpa is in fact skewed in FAVOR of rollins.

    on another note, i'm wondering if you would ever plan on doing the same thing, but instead compare performances to replacement level players instead of average players.

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  35. I was going to substitute VORP for WPA in a post, probably Monday night. Although if you are impatient, check this out.

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